HELP with Uni Research - Thinking of Surgery?

Thanks again for all the comments - and also for those who have taken the survey.

(Professor) Dr Mizerski and Dr Lee are from the UWA Business School and definitely not medical doctors. Dr Mizerski has done considerable work in the area of impacts around child obesity (google "obesity" and "Mizerski"), and Dr Lee works for Dr Mizerski. They where asked for help because they are experts on consumer research - which is the best description for this kind of research.

However, Dr Padovan is a doctor - he is one of Perth's leading bariatric surgeons. Dr Padovan weas very generous with his time and gave input to the structure and the research questions. He is also giving this research to his patients who come to visit. I think many of you may know him.

Anything in this area should be done on a solid research and evidenced based approach - and that is why we are here on this forum bothering people. We are very appreciative of those who have helped with the survey.

If you would like to take it - here is that link again:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/surveythinkingaboutweightlosssurgery

Terry

Firstly its good to see some differring opinions on this thread
without it getting out of hand
Gastric sleeve support forum is for all of us on here to have a say and join in
,whilst still being thoughtful of other members.
SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT!!!!!!

michelle

I absolutely agree with Deb and feel that certain terms were used to give the impression that this is medical research. I also feel it was misleading, even if they never overtly said it was medical research, they certainly implied it by mentioning the university and "Drs" and how many participants were required.

Teecee, I think questioning things is perfectly fine, provided people are not flamed for differing opinions. If you think this site is harsh on differing views, then you need to check out some more forums... this is very kind and gentle by comparison. It's healthy to question what you are told, particularly with regard to medical treatments and surgery. It does take some time to grow a thicker skin when you're online and people's responses are subject to interpretation.

There's a concept in statistics called "NNT" or numbers needed to treat which is commonly used to assess medical interventions. It allows you to work out exactly how many people would have to be treated before 1 person got a good outcome. If you need to treat 1000 people in "fat camp" in order to get 30 people (3%) to lose weight long term, I don't know if that's an acceptable outcome. For the 30, sure. But what about the 970 that are a lot poorer and a lot more disconsolate about their weight due to yet another failure?

In any case, I agree that the OP should have explicitly stated that this was a marketing survey.

oh trust me I have a major problem with anybody having wls for any reason other than serious health problems or morbid obescity. there are a few sleeve surgeons like that and LOTS of bandit ones. but the reality is my problem with them doing this is the risks not the lousy 3% odds a thousands of dollars a week far farm gives you. it is false hope at a huge price for at least 97% who do it.

applesauce

applesauce - I could say the same thing about surgeons who take the $$ of people in their 20's who have BMI's around 32. And from what I have read on here, there is a few of those ...

I know this sounds rough but it is are you desperate enough to throw away thousands of dollars for a less than 3% chance of success before resorting to surgery. and yup there are people that desperate. shame on those who take their money.

applesauce

roadtripmama, I totally understand your viewpoint and agree 100%.

I guess I don't feel that I am stupid enough to think that a survey conducted online, unanimously on a public access tool like survey monkey (anyone can set up a survey on that site) is going to be legitimate, bona fide 'medical research". I never thought that when I did it.

Secondly, the last time I looked and the reason I joined this forum is because it's called gastric sleeve support. I find it fascinating that when someone comes on here and offers an alternate view or even attempts to offer support in a manner that some see as threatening to their thought process, that person gets questioned, challenged, and what could be interpreted as bullied. In my mind, sometimes that alternate view is very supportive and of great help in making informed decisions, rather than being treated like an idiot by preachers and lecturers.

Thanks TeeCee, you are more magnanimous that I am thats for sure.

I just wanted to alert people to the fact that its a marketing survey, not a medical one. And youre right nowhere does it say its medical research, it just alludes to being that.
and I cant help feeling that the OP has purposely used the terms Dr , associating this survey with the University of WA when that association is probably very minimal
and quite possibly for consultation purposes only, to sucker people into completing the survey. Lying by omission and misrepresented themselves morally if not legally.

How many people here would have happily responded to the post:

"Market Research assistant would like you to help us find out if Fat Camps are financially viable in Australia"

At least that would have been honest and I wouldnt have any problem with that. At least those people helping out would do so with an informed consent.

The OP is right though...theres so little research out there in Australia its truly shocking!! We just dont know how many people we can sell this idea to,
how many nights they think they might stay or even how much they are prepared to overpay for it!! Its scandalous.

I do begrudge companies misrepresenting themselves. And whilst it may be great that 1 or 2 people have success with a product, what about 95%+ of us who have been
left feeling like failures, depressed and even broker because of it.

Do I begrudge anyone in the WLS with quantifiable and reasonable success rates...certainly not.

Just dont misrepresent yourself is all. Thats what I think this OP has done. Its not because is marketing, Its because its not entirely honest and manipulative.

Deb

And yes I know the PhD's can also be called Doctors...but not many do...people might mistake them for medical doctors....

The way I see it - I wish there were more people like Mader or whoever she works for regardless of whether it is medical research, marketing or business planning.

The more people out there willing to "help" anyone rid themselves of weight the better.

Yes I realise that the "weight loss industry" can be very misleading and unsuccessful long term for a lot of people, but if at the end of the day if the jenny craig's, tony fergusson's, weight watcher's, sleeve surgeons and potential fat camps of the world help just 1 person not die of complications related to their weight then good on them!!!

We live in a free democratic society that allows businesses to operate for profit and if their customers are happy with what they offer, so be it.

Let's not forget that most (if not all) Bariatric Surgeons are operating around the world because it is a lucrative business - not because they are trying to do great things in medicine!! For god's sake the weight loss surgeon's "Free Information Sessions" are explained in Chapter one of the Marketing 101 text book!!!

P.S. The OP never mentioned "medical research" it just said "research"

Hi All,

Just so you know:

This survey seems be for the marketing and business school of the UWA.

It does not appear to be medical research. Again happy to be proven wrong if I'm wrong.

Its marketing/advertising research, under the guise of academic/medical research.

So they can sell 'fat camp' more effectively I suppose...and they can find out how much they can charge for it cos they asked us!

Heres a link for one Dr Lee on the UWA site. Im assuming its the same one as mentioned by the OP.

http://www.business.uwa.edu.au/contact/marketing?type=profile&dn=cn%3DAlvin%20Lee%2C%20ou%3DMarketing%2C%20ou%3DUWA%20Business%20School%2C%20ou%3DFaculty%20of%20Business%20%28UWA%20Business%20School%29%2C%20ou%3DFaculties%2C%20o%3DThe%20University%20of%20Western%20Australia

Dr mizersky:

http://www.directory.uwa.edu.au/view?dn=cn%253DDick%2520Mizerski%252B%2520uid%253D20060420113814-0%2540directory%252C%2520ou%253DMarketing%252C%2520ou%253DUWA%2520Business%2520School%252C%2520ou%253DFaculty%2520of%2520Business%2520%2528UWA%2520Business%2520School%2529%252C%2520ou%253DFaculties%252C%2520o%253DThe%2520University%2520of%2520Western%2520Australia

Participate if you wish, but please dont assume you are doing it for medical research reasons.

Deb

Hi Mader,

I have some questions:

1.Given that you have dropped the UWA collusion in this survey, are they actually aware of it?
2.Has the study/survey been assessed by their ethics department.
3.Are you actually getting peoples consent prior to using their info?

Or are you just trolling for free market research but calling it medical research in order to get kind hearted peoples responses? Survey monkey....seriously.

This smells of corporate market research to me...people.

And unless the above criteria have been met, its unethical too.

Sorry if I am being skeptical here, but I used to be a research nurse, and all sorts of hoops need to be jumped through for bone fide medical research.

Please put these fears to rest Mader.

Id be happy to be wrong.

Deb

I just want to know Mader, Did you choose your username from the movie "Cars"? LOL

Mader - I think you misunderstood.... the drawback of type is you couldn't hear the humour in my voice.
They weren't BAD experiences at all. Sure, the were awkward (mostly because THEY felt awkward and unsure of themselves), but everyone has to start somewhere and it made my 6 weeks in hospital a little more interesting.
I actually enjoyed having them look after me.
First - because I felt like my very extended stay was benefiting someone.
Second - because, lets face it, trainees work in pairs WITH a supervisor. So you have 3 people watching out for mistakes/problems!

I just logged on again and saw the many responses. Thanks! Thanks also to those taking the time to fill in the survey - we are approaching 20 completed!

I respond to each of you below (hope I missed no one - let me know).

cos im worth it
Thanks for post. It was actually the growth of these type of centres that triggered the study. Do they work long term? For whom? At what stage (in place of, pre or post surgery etc.)

Pierrced Mumma08
Thanks for posts. Good luck with your own plans and hope all goes well.

carrie
Thanks for post. I am sorry the errors creeped in at start - when you have a bunch of people looking and making changes you can sometimes overlook big errors! Good point about bias - that will be watched.

ssjad
Thanks for post. Yes I changed 2 questions a bit (14 and 19) and I can see who answered when there was an error so I will take those out. Dr Padovan and Dr Lee and Dr Mizerski from UWA are leading professionals in their fields. Any errors rest solely with me - either typos or missing logical things - and I take that on the chin. I apologize again. I would look at survey to get a full view.

Huggy Bear
Thanks for post. I just wanted to mention that the idea that has been floated for these clinics is that you could a) use in place of surgery, b) as a lead up to surgery, c) post surgery (at band tightening's etc), or d) longer term support. I think (b) could be a good use depending on what we find.

Eternlslady
Thanks for posts. I will take your well thought out comments on board. Sorry to hear about your bad experiences with trainees!

nimue
Thanks for post. You are right, almost all studies show that almost all people fall back to original weight after diets etc. That is a real frustration point for many (and most of all those actually going through it). This shows a major failure of the "weight loss industry" as a whole. I am not sure how dedicated, well designed clinics will fair longer term - it needs to be studied. One idea is that many people do actually pretty good following a weight control program, but then will relapse and then spiral out of control. An idea is that you could a clinic could be an "emergency" short circuit, where you could check in for time out. We hope to test all that.

Peazles
Thanks for post. Yes - costs are a large barrier. But if you have some solid years (2-3 years) of evidence based results, then medical insurance may cover a portion/or even large parts of stay.

sophia
Thanks for post. As I mentioned, we are not sure who will fund the test clinic, an association, hospital, university, private etc.

Diamonds
Thanks for post. Sorry to make you sick. Was not the intention.

I think it's just something else that will fall under the 'Weight Loss Industry' banner.
And that's all the WLI is, an industry primarily interested in making money. Then they make even more money, by fooling us all into going back when that wonderful weight loss hasn't been sustainable.

The people that work there are there for the pay at the end of the week.
God I wish I got paid for mindlessly asking "are you drinking all your water"?

I just read the survey and didnt really find an issue with it. Maybe pre sleeve I might have but my perception of myself has improved a lot over the last month since the surgery. Maybe it is too raw for some. I wouldnt pay to go to a clinic before surgery or opti camp either though. I guess if you frankly answer the questions to yourself and not send it in you might find in your head space where your emotions lie.

I always complete studies and research papers in hospitals and always let the trainees in so that they can learn and be great for the future.

Let's face it we are all here because we needed help and Aust has a massive obesity crisis and these people are just trying to work out what is needed and what can help for the future.This may not be it but until they ask the questions and get the feedback they wont know.

Ill attend Opti Camp.

Can we have a chef for the 2 cups of vegies?

Kasey,
You are a genius!!! I LOVE "Opti Camp"... how good would that be. Some of us (looking at Gail and winking) may want to go there for our holidays, LOL.

SSjad,
I was actually impressed that they took the suggestions on board and changed the 2 questions so quickly.

Cheers - Carrie

The study's stuffed anyway, because the available answers were changed after some people already completed the questionnaire. Seems very disorganised and unprofessional to me. I haven't read it and won't be doing it.

Kasey,

I love that idea of an Opti-camp!

It would make the lead up to the surgery much easier for sure. I'm surprised there isn't something like that in place in the States where Opti orginated from. I checked out their homepage the other page and there are several success stories of people losing 80kg in a year on Opti. Wonder how they will go maintaining it though!

xxHuggy

I finished the survey.

When I was in the hospital for 6 weeks during my last pregnancy I became the guinea pig for 2 trainee nurses.
Believe me, you haven't experienced awkward medical treatment until you have been a nurse's first catheter!
I was also the other nurses first attempt at removing sutures. She apologised with every one and they didn't even hurt!
Both of them couldn't thank me enough for my tolerance (the catheter took 4 attempts!)

So I know that being part of a study or being the patient of a trainee is actually a good thing.

Unfortunately this particular survey is confronting at a time when we are already feeling vulnerable. But it is actually rather interesting to think that some people might be helped before surgery has even crossed their mind.
It's also (and I actually considered this carefully) a great idea to have a "rehab" type situation for the opti stage. I would have benefited from a lack of temptation and a chef to make those vegies interesting!
Imagine being at "Opti-camp". Filling in your time with information seminars about surgery/post op diet, exercise classes to help lose the weight and teach you beneficial exercises your post-surgery recovery, support groups of people going through exactly the same thing you are. Not thinking about food because you don't have to prepare it. Never having to see a store or advertising... That would be awesome!

What keeps coming up I my mind is, that the studies done on weight loss to date reflect that only a very very small % (something like 1-2 I think) of people who loose weight on diets, actually keep it off long term..........so wether I was loosing it at home on a diet or at one of these facilities, there is still a high probability I would put it back on. I'm also curious to see a follow up show 5-10yrs from now on the contestants from the biggest looser, how many would have, over time gained it back..+.??? Terri

I actually quite like the idea of a weightloss "retreat/centre" style place, I'd do it if I had the means.
The thing that puts me off is the money. The cost of attending these places is enormous - I've had a look at quite a few of them. Someone mentioned Adro's place below and yep, it looks fab, but there is no way in hell I could afford it.
The surgery, to me, if a more affordable option.

Diamonds wrote:

Oh thank god augigi/kasey/Nat- this is how I was feeling last night; regarding this, when I looked at the questions I just felt sick! So I didn't do it!

Just something about this whole thread/questonaire made me react the same as you guys... So I'm glad t know it's nt just me!!!!

Phew

Well apparently im bagging the medical industry??!?!!?!?

I swear i thought this site was about opinions and support. Ive had enough of not being listened too, misquoted or made out that Im the bad guy!!!!

I SAID I would do the survey however I dont like the idea of being a study. Thats all im saying. I dont want to be analysed by 19 year old students because im overweight.

Thats all im saying. Sorry but this site is just not working for me right now.

When I was in hospital last year being de-tumourfied, two student Dr's who were trailing around behind my oncologist, asked me if I would be prepared to complete a (huge) questionaire and interview regarding various treatments and methods for post-operative care (after cancer ops). I was happy to do so, as well as providing a welcome distraction, I hope my answering helped those students have an idea of how a patient was feeling, and you never know it may help someone else down the track.

This is an anonymous survey by Dr's at a University, canvassing opinion for their research. It's completely voluntary, but, if people who disagree with the idea they are floating don't actually fill out the survey, don't be surprised when you see the results showing an overwhelming approval rating for the concept.

I don't think it sounds like a great idea either, but if I was in the target group (pre-op) for filling out the questionaire, I would do so and register my opinion.

Cheers - Carrie