Gall stone symptons/pain, but no stones

When I was sleeved, they cleaned out and flushed through to get rid of gravel and sludge which had formed despite me having my gallbladder removed some years back.

Just wanted to let you know that you can actually still develop stones and gravel or sludge even after your gall bladder has been removed. I had gall stones about 18 years and had my gall bladder removed. Over the years I have had the occassional "attack" where the symptoms were exactly the same as the gall stones attacks, just not as acute. I just put it down to bad indigestion, virus whatever I could to justify it because no gall bladder = no gall stones, right???



I never chased it up cos it might only happen once every few years. When I started the process with Dr Harrison, I had to do an indepth medical history and we talked about my gall stones. I told him I must experience phantom attacks cos they feel like that but with my gallbladder gone it couldn't be, but he said yes, you can develop gravel and stones without a gall bladder. I think he said it develops in the bile duct ( I could be wrong). So I wasn't imagining it after all.

Just thought I'd better update this thread in case someone else goes through a similar situation in the future.

I had my gallbladder removed last week. It was the problem ... inflamed, excess sludge and there was a tiny stone in my bile duct.

I had a follow up meeting this morning with my surgeon and he said everything else internally looks great including my gorgeous sleeve ... (that's me saying gorgeous, not him!!)

Make sure you seek another opinion if your GP or doctor tells you that everything looks OK. My surgeon saw something in the initial unltrasound that the radiologist didn't. Save yourself some time and pain ... ask a specialist.

I'm feeling great and very relieved that this part of my adventure is over.

(My diary has more details if you're interested.)



http://www.gastricsleevesupport.com/t6168-star-light-star-bright-i-wish-i-may-i-wish-i-might

Ah, good to hear the scan has found a reason for those symptoms - that sounds much more likely than IBS.

The pain from gall bladder issues is very intense, it's in the areas you described, and it can lead to nausea and vomiting. Sludge is hard to see but can give you those same gripey feelings as full-blown stones. Perhaps you had a stone blocking the duct and it has now passed - the pain from that would be excrucitaing, like a hot knife.

I hope you don't have a repeat episode, but if you do, a laparoscopic cholecystectomy is very routine nowadays. I found it a VERY easy procedure - overnight stay, and home in no time. All the best!

MiddleWoman

Not as significant as the time i mentioned. Just some discomfort occasionally that is not related to foods or time of the month or bowel habits. The time i was in hospital was at my biggest, and some of the docs weren't very nice. The surgeon that saw me was arrogant and aloof. He said to follow up with him after discharge, which I did. And at this appointment all he wanted to talk about was how fat i was and how i needed to lose weight. That's kind of an aside, but it still makes me mad.

So my faith in docs finding out what was going on really diminished. Since it hasn't bothered me for a few years, I'm not too worried about it. Random pain is random and all that....

Thank you so much for your replies.

My surgeons office got the results of the CT already and phoned to say that everything looked pretty good, except (and please forgive me if I get some of this wrong at this stage) I have a build up of sludge in the gall bladder and I think the/a bile duct may be inflamed. I think she also said there may be evidence of a couple of tiny stones.

So for the time-being I am to take it easy with my exercise, avoid any fatty foods, drink more water and wait until my meeting with my surgeon on 10 August (when he returns from holiday).

Kind of a relief that they've finally found something ... I really wasn't happy when the GP implied IBS ... but I'm also aware that they may still decide the best option is to remove the gall bladder. At least I'll receive a much better explanation in a couple of weeks. (I don't really know how all of this works!)

If surgery is the answer, can anyone advise what questions I should be asking? I have total faith in my surgeon, this is all a part of his speciality, but I just don't know how any of it works. At least when I went in to see him about the sleeve, I was armed with a barrage of questions ...


Thanks Middlewoman - yep, they had me connected up to the monitor in the ambulance and at the hospital and the heart was all OK. The blood tests also ruled out any clots etc. As part of the CT scan they were ruling out the possibility of a leak, although it was never really a concern (no fever etc).

Thanks Coastgirl - I'll keep that in mind if I ever get blocked - I've always been fairly regular so this hasn't really been my issue. TMI - the additional fibre my dietitian suggested just helps the consistency.

Thanks Synna - does that mean you have never had a repeat episode?

Sounds ouchie!

I had a similar thing once, and ended up in hospital for 2 long boring nights. In the end I was discharged home once I was ok, but with no firm diagnosis. They suspected gall bladder problems but the CT and ultrasounds were clear.

People who lose weight quickly or just a lot of weight are at higher risk of getting gall stones... or it could be inflamed bile ducts or a number of other issues. I'd be pro-active and follow up with the doc's again, because it sounds horribly painful.

good luck :)

Hi G stargazer,
I think you will find the CT scan will give you more clarity on what is going on. It is quite possibly related to adhesion pain, which is naturally occuring post surgically particularly in abdominal surgeries. Adhesions are not always painful but can be very much so for some and don't always create issues immediately but can do so months later. Additionally there can be follow on issues due to them.

Based on personal experience with my son recently I'm going to take a guess that your symptoms are possibly due to adhesions and/or quite possibly your small bowel is reacting to food as it is already heavily faecal compacted particularly if fibre consumption is an issue ..sorry if (tmi). An additional possible complication is a twisted/ kinked small intestine (bowel) that has possibly occured due to adhesions. Your symptoms are virtually identical to my sons post op complications from an ruptured appendix. Xrays and ultrasounds will not show up adhesions only a contrast ct will. If by chance you are told its just constipation it can very well be more complicated but present as constipation with colic type pains etc - the ct is the only way to confirm.

In case your CT doesn't happen today it might pay to try 'Movical'. It is a great oral satchet medication that can help clear out any back log, no script needed just buy at the chemist - something you could try over a couple of days then if pain continue to returns you can at least rule out the basics.

Best of luck - don't fret if any of the above is the case, it can all be sorted:)

Take care, Jill

It sounds too early to diagnose it as IBS. That is the last resort when all other conditions have been ruled out.

Did you have an ECG to rule out heart issues?

Is the CT scan to check for a leak? I ask these questions due to the location of the pain up in the chest area, and also the cold sweats (dumping?) and abdominal symptoms. If it is occurring after food, the stomach definitely needs a thorough check. I hope the scan reveals more, as you don't want to be dealing with that dreadful pain again.

I really hope it all goes well.

MiddleWoman

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone else has had these symptoms and if so, what is the cause.

Starts off with a dull pain across my pain, as though my bra is too tight. The pain intensifies and then I get chest pain too (just under boobs/across bra line), cold sweats kick in and bloating/cramping through abdominal region. Cannot find a position to ease the pain (sitting, standing, walking, laying on back, stomach, sides etc). I have noticed that if I lie on my right side, I start to feel nauseaus too.

The first time (30/6) I had a panic attack too because the pain was so intense and I had no idea what was going on. Blood pressure went through the roof, trouble breathing and I was rushed to hospital by ambo. As soon as the green stick and morphene kicked in I calmed down and the pain eased dramatically. Bloods were taken and four hours later I was released from hospital, given the all clear.

The following night (Friday 01/07) the same symptons began and I managed to keep calm, took pain killers immediately and rode the waves of pain, usually 2 - 4 hours. During this time I dredged the internet and came to the conclusion that gall stones may have been the problem.

I went to my GP on the Saturday and had to wait until Monday (04/07) for a full abdominal ultrasound.

U/s was all clear, told they had no idea what the cause was and put it down to IBS. (Apparently this is a common diagnosis if they have no idea what is happening.)

Follow up appointment with Dietitian on 13/07 and she advised that it may help if I up my fibre (1 serve of benefibre and pear juice twice a day) and take double dose of inner health plus. Although my BM's have improved, I have had three more "episodes".

Just after lunch on 16/07, then again two nights ago 26/07 and last night 27/07.

The pain seems to start approx. an hour after I have eaten. I have looked for a pattern with the types of food that I've eaten, the types of exercises I've done etc and can find no patterns.

My surgeon is currently on holidays and his office have arranged a contrast CT Scan for later today.

So, has anyone else had what appears to be a gall attack, but it was something else?